accessibility_fail | The telephone thing

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The telephone thing

To put it mildly, I have issues when it comes to telephones.

In the extreme case, I can have a conversation over the telephone without really being able to understand the other person, while saying things I don't mean, but that bit doesn't really matter because I don't know what it is I'm saying and the other person isn't able to understand me anyway. Subsets of this set of circumstances crop up very regularly. As is probably understandable, telephone conversations with people I do not know very well a) take up a large chunk of my spoons and b) are singularly unpleasant experiences that I will go to great lengths to avoid.

So why is it that there are so many things you can only ever do by phone?

The current fail is me trying to get a code from my mobile phone provider so I can switch providers and still keep my number. I send an e-mail. "Sorry, call this number!" I go to their store. "Sorry, you can only do this by phone!" Why is it that when I am standing right there I have to do it by phone? Why is it that among the multitude of alternate communication channels we have at our disposal it has to be this specific one? Is it so utterly impossible for you to imagine there are people who might have problems with it?

The really frustrating thing is, of course, that I *can* use a fistful of spoons to grit my teeth and lift the handset and call the company anyway, with at least a reasonable chance of being able to communicate. There are people who can't. These people might, actually, have mobile phones as you can do far more with them than simply calling people. Or maybe they'd like to do things like changing the address for their credit card (another one of those "sorry, phone only!" things for my bank, which has resulted in my credit card having been unusable for the last year). Methinks Deaf or HoH people, among others, would like to be able to use credit cards too?

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*points* This. People are obsessed with the bloody telephone. It's a phone. Some people can talk on it. That's it - it's not like it sings, dances, and makes toast! It's good, but it's not that good, and I really wish people would get a little less dependant on it - especially now we have so much we can do online too - nevermind the fact they're trying to "make it more convenient" (*coughs*Save money) by removing real people from banks and customer services and shunt everything to phones.

I had to argue with a doctor's receptionist the other week about why making an appointment by telephone wasn't possible. They release appointments for each day at 8:30. The following happened:

Her: So just give us a ring at 8:30 and you can book in tomorrow.
Me: Can I come in instead?
Her: Give us a call, this is the number...
Me: I'm hard of hearing, I don't tend to use phones. Can I come in here at 8:30?
Her: If you phone up, you can get an appointment for tomorrow, we don't know until then what the appointments are.
Me: But I can't use a phone. Can I come in to the surgery?
Her: Oh. Well. Just give us a ring...

I just walked off and came in at 8:30 the next day, and thankfully it was a different woman. But really, she could not seem to listen to what I was saying, which was ironic. I'm in a similar position to you - in an emergency, I could use a phone, but given I live literally around the corner, it takes fewer spoons to nip over the road than to try and understand someone on the phone (Who half the time won't listen to "I'm hard of hearing, could you repeat that?")

I know! The telephone is actually damn impractical in many ways even sans hearing/speech related problems or other such issues. It's real time so you don't have the time to actually think over your response and maybe look things up, it means you're constrained to the time someone is staffing the desk which may be highly impractical if that happens to coincide exactly with the time you are working, it means the possibility of error if you are trying to transmit a complicated string of information, it means you don't have a record of the conversation afterwards. (Cue ten conversations where in each one the people will promise you your issue has been sorted and it hasn't, and the following time you call it turns out you apparently hallucinated the previous one because they don't have anything of the sort on record.) E-mail is so much more useful in so many ways. I get that they're worried about identity theft or something like it, but surely they can think of some good verification measures that will work via e-mail? And I sometimes wonder why there does not seem to be anything that is not strictly personal done via chat; one would think some sort of secured chat interface would be a good way to do certain things.

But no. Telephones are clearly the way to go!!! *sigh*

And that story is just awful - I hate it when people seem incapable of listening to what you are actually saying in favour of projecting what they would do/feel in that situation onto you! Basic empathy fail! Especially when you are telling them you are hard of hearing, where it should not be *that* hard to figure out what you mean and why something might be problematic! (I tend to um and ah my way past explanations because I have some undiagnosed hearing issue that is probably some combination of hypersensitivity, inability to filter out background noise and a possible mild auditory processing disorder and I can already see people's eyes glazing over in my mind.)

Someone in the open-source community needs to come up with a good secure web-based chat interface for things like this. Assuming it hasn't already been done, of course...

That won't change the percentage of people who are luddites and won't use anything invented after WWII.

I imagine part of the problem is that telephones are Old Hat and familiar but that anything new-fangled (especially if it involves computers) is "Help I'm not good with computers" on the service provider's end.

Oh, yeah, good point. Given the number of times I've sent e-mails to the address actually listed on a company's web site and never gotten a response... >_<

Not a solution to the stupid "must be done over the phone" problem, but have you looked into using a TTY or text to speech telephone service? TTY services let users with hearing or speech impediments use the phone via a keyboard and a relay operator, but I see no reason why they couldn't also be used by someone with other difficulties with communicating on the phone.

I see from your userinfo that you're in Germany, and sadly I don't know what kind of system they have there and my English-language googling is getting me confirmation that there's some kind of system but not any specifics, probably because I don't know the proper German terms/abbreviations to search for.

I just realized that that first sentence doesn't make much sense. TTY isn't a solution to the fact that people are dumb and insist on some things being done over the phone, but it might be a way to make it easier to deal with.

Of course, then there are the people who hang up on relay calls, thinking that it's a telemarketer or something. ::headdesk:: Sometimes I wish there were a method of administering cluebat beatings over the phone.

How exactly do those kind of phone conversations start or come across. Is it a machine, or a live operator? Because I do automatically hang up when I hear a pre-recorded voice. It never occurred to me that it could be a recording to assist someone with hearing disabilities.

As far as I know, it's a live operator. I've never been on the receiving end of a relay call, so I'm not certain, but from everyone's experiences that I've read about it was a live operator...

I've received & made relay calls. In general, the operator (in USA called a Communication Assistant) will check to see if you're familiar with using relay. The CA is supposed to be a communication utility, not a participant. Before you give them the number to dial, you discuss how you want things to go. CAs offer to explain the relay to the receiving party, but that often results in the hang-ups, because the CAs' voices do sound like people who are working in call centers because hey! they're working on the phone all day.

So I'll tell the CA, "I'll introduce myself," then when they type at me
< RING … RING …. RING … MALE > HELLO, BLUEBERRY HILL CLINIC
I can type back,
Good morning, this is Jesse the K calling about my appointment for next month. I'm calling through the telephone relay so there will be a short lag between questions and answers, please stand by.

It seems there are fewer hangups when I'm always speaking for myself, instead of starting off with the CA explaining xie's speaking for someone else.

I'm from Germany but living in the UK, so that's luckily not an issue. Thank you for the tip! I always hesitate with these things because part of me still feels as if these are for Real Disabled People and I'm just pretending, and after all I *can* manage phone conversations with a huge amount of effort so... it doesn't help that for people with my speech disorder, where phone terror is quite common, desensitisation is always seen as the number one method of dealing with it and I have never heard anyone raise the idea of alternate communication methods.

OTOH, it seems as if the amount of phone conversations I absolutelypositivelyMUST make keeps going up, and it is becoming more and more of a serious problem. I almost wound up with all my belongings stranded in the city I used to live in because all the removals companies I'd looked at seemed to be of the phone-only sort and I kept putting it off. >

At least half the people using the telephone relay system don't have any impairment — the typically hearing folks on the voice end.

Please don't feel like your impairment is not Real Enough. I personally know autistics in the U.S. who use relay because they just can't process spoken language fast enough. Some days I use relay because my short-term memory is unreliable.

Finally, finally we're in a "disability rights" society (or at least the start of one) where there isn't a limited pool of charity. We don't have to hold back so that others can participate. It's there to be used.

(Although too many people do hang right up on relay calls, as codeman points out. One reason has been that the U.S. phone companies have been providing completely open IP relay services for several years, and griefers have used them to make thousands of prank phone calls. Starting in Nov 09 people have to register for IP relay, which should cut down some on the griefers.)

Thank you, I think I really needed to hear that. I know objectively that my reaction is just classic invisible-disabilities-don't-count stuff and that it's so much bullshit, but I can't help myself thinking "but that's for actual deaf people!" when I read about this stuff. I especially needed to hear that because most of these issues are in fact because I'm autistic. (Hypersensitivity/other sensory issues and processing lag, yay! Also, that pesky "say things without knowing what they are when feeling sufficiently rushed" thing. Fun times all around!) So knowing that other people with my issues or ones very similar to them are using this actually helps enormously.

And I have found a website that has helpful info for people in the UK, and the prospect of being able to do a large part of those Necessary Phone Conversations via text makes me want to jump up and start singing and dancing. I think my flatmates would be slightly disturbed.

V glad I can be of service *grin*.

Heh, my auditory processing is screwy enough that I often identify myself as hard of hearing even though it's not technically true...

GAH. YES. I have a hard time hearing over the phone, too, and it's so frustrating when people won't even bother to attempt to make accommodations or use alternative means of communication.

Sometimes-- sometimes-- I can understand that there might be security reasons for not being able to do something like e-mail, when it comes to confidential personal information. But in the majority of cases, that's really no excuse, and at the very least they should be able to take care of it in person.

What's really annoying, incidentally, is when people provide a TTY number or e-mail address, and then don't bother to actually check those or, worse, don't even know how to answer them. >_<

Oh, incidentally, one that particularly gets me in the "wow, they really didn't think this one through" department... my university's psych counseling office requires a telephone intake before arranging any sort of in-person appointment. Yeah, because that's really something I want to be doing over relay, even if the operators are sworn to confidentiality... -_-;;

(Thankfully, they do allow for in-person intake sessions given extenuating circumstances like, y'know, not being able to hear on the phone. Which is good.)

That's idiotic. You'd think that psych counselling would get them people with a variety of issues relating to a variety of things, and if you're trying to get an appointment for counselling chances are you aren't at your most comfortable anyhow! I mean, the one at my old uni actually had an online application-slash-appointment-request, among others. Perfect for the nervous student.

Yeah. As phone-phobic as I am normally, I'm even more so when I'm depressed or stressed! -_-;;

My partner is hearing impaired and needs a fistful of spoons to use the telephone. I dislike the telephone. We are more likely to patronize a business that makes itself available by e-mail.

I am not hearing impaired. But using the phone takes up a whole set of spoons. Phones feel invasive to me. And then I tend to need to write out my thoughts before hand and have a list in front of me of the points I want to bring up - because people on the phone just go too fast.

My real problem these days is that even by phone you can't get a real person. It's all automated systems. I loathe automated systems because I can't ask questions and make sure I've understood things properly. Make a mistake in an automated system and a lot of the times you have to start over from the top - which means more time on the phone. Just holding the receiver for me can be incredibly draining. My mind knows phone = energy and anxiety.

I've had a phonecall to make for a couple of weeks now (almost 2 months) and I haven't done it, because there are other things I needed my spoons for.

Oh, gyaahh. That reminds me-- the automated systems often time out before the relay operator can get around to fully transcribing the menu. So frustrating.

I've started trying to do the writing-things-out thing as well because everything is just too damn fast on the phone and I wind up becoming incredibly incoherent if I don't have the time to plan what I'm going to say. Especially if it's anything complicated I need to do, because then I'll try to explain three things simultaneously and leave off the fourth altogether and it just ends in a lot of confusion for everyone involved. (And talking about this I am realising that about four different issues collide when it comes to talking on the phone for me so it's no wonder the only person I can really manage it with is my mother.)

I... find automated systems *good* in the sense that I can tell it to repeat over and over until I'm finally sure I understand what it's saying, but far outweighing it they are *bad* in the sense that a lot of the times I simply find the instructions unclear no matter how often they repeat, and, as you said, more time = more anxiety. When I pick up the phone, I have mentally girded myself for *one* conversation, period. Needing to jump through hoops to get to this one call, or being bounced back and forth between people until I land at the service I need, is incredibly taxing.

I sympathise on the two months thing - as said I have left my credit card in limbo for an entire *year* at this point because I couldn't face the hassle and spoon-sucking of changing my address when I knew I'd be moving in another year and need to do it again (and credit card is again one of those automated things!)

The bouncing around is the worse. There's another thing I just stopped trying to fix. Because each month I called, and got bounced to a higher and more in charge person - where I had to repeat what was wrong (which is complicated to start with) over and over again.

And when the not fixed thing happened this month, I just decided 'screw it'. Because I'm tired of having to call and go through the same rigmarole. Though the last time I called (I've just remembered now) someone took pity on me and gave me the direct line to the supervisors I'd need.

But there is nothing worse than trying to explain a problem and feeling satisfied you've managed it, only to be told you have to repeat yourself to someone else. And when that happens 3 and 4 times a conversation - by the time the person who can apparently handle things comes on the phone - I just want to sleep.

Sometimes I sit and realize that so many of my spoons are taken up with trying to handle things no one thought another person would have difficulty with. It's started to make me incredibly angry at people who mock when anyone with any kind of disability gets congratulated for accomplishing something. They go 'it's no big deal, stop clapping because they tied their shoe laces, or made it here by themselves'.

But the truth is, when so many things don't work the way your body or brain works it is a tremendous accomplishment to handle it. I've had trouble giving myself a break with this and my new therapist has pointed out that when able bodied people break an arm or a leg, or something, they get incredibly frustrated immediately at a temporary obstacle and never think about what it would be like to have to face that obstacle every single day, no matter how you felt.

Augh. That sounds like the kind of telephone conversation that would make me give up in horror one person in. I congratulate you on managing to put up with it as long as you did.

And - ohh yes. Ever since I first had the big realisation of "holy shit I'm disabled", I sort of mentally bounce between "I'm just making a fuss about nothing I should be ashamed of myself for acting as if I'm disabled when all the Real Disabled People are over there" (typical invisible disability narrative, in other words) and "oh my god do I spend a massive amount of spoons on rote everyday things that other people probably don't even *think* about." It makes me really bitter sometimes, hearing people make disparaging comments about things where I am willing to bet they haven't the slightest idea what it's like to live that, whereas I deal with that shit every day. And it's really difficult to keep myself from falling back into that "must try harder!" mantra (instead of trying to work around my limitations which is the sensible thing to do) or beating myself up about things like subsisting on junk food a lot of the time (when this is, you know, because eating and the procurement and preparation of food can be a very spoon-consumptive activity and I need very careful planning and routines to fall back on in order to manage semi-regular meals.)

It's really difficult to try and re-learn what you can be proud of, and letting it include things other people can do without even thinking. :(

It's really difficult to try and re-learn what you can be proud of, and letting it include things other people can do without even thinking.

Precisely! That's another case of "living within chalk lines." Because I've learned how to work around my limitations, I experience less day-to-day impairment. I draw the borders in chalk, and I'm careful not to overstep them. So one of the things I am proud of is not "overcoming" my disability, but learning how to dance with it.

That's a concept some disabled people don't get, and it's really foreign to most non-disabled people.

I finally learned my limits spoon/enrgy wise when I ended up flat on my back earlier this year. I could sleep, just barely make it to the bathroom and I couldn't even eat. I could manage a glass of milk.

Now I seriously respect my energy limits like no one's business. Like whoa!

Yet, I'm still slightly mad at myself for -still- needing recovery time after having to have a plumber intervention in my space for about a week straight back in August. Logically I know how much energy it took to deal with strangers in my space, making a mess etc. But the part that's only just admitted this year that my cane is going to be long term? It isn't listening.

And I get you on the food front too. I've just realized that trying to keep a particular diet is wearing me out and I'm just going to have to deal with the fact some premade stuff has msg, because I need premade sometimes.

So yeah, folk not getting the concept of spoons (energy spoons, intellectual spoons, combinations etc) - I wish there was a robot to come after me to give them a thumping.

I must confess, my usual method for dealing with automated systems is to punch the 0 button over and over again in aggravation. In about 80% of the ones I've encountered, that will get you a real live person. Eventually. Usually after asking you to input more data - I just hit the # key after those and keep going. Most give up and connect you. But it's annoying.

Oh yes. Entirely. Or say 'Operator over and over again'. I didn't know about the # sign though.

Normally, I'm fine with phones, even with my hearing impairment. I get paid to talk to people on the phone all day, for that matter.

When I'm really, really sick? Forget it. I have a TTY for the sole express purpose of using it to make same-day doctor appointments when I'm feeling too sick to even bother putting on my hearing aids. I have to ration my spoons for being able to actually communicate with the doctor to (a) explain my symptoms, and (b) understand the care instructions I'm given.

Admittedly I am, like, seven days late on commenting on this -- I just wanted to give my sympathies. I totally understand where you're coming from from a totally different angle; I am deathly phobic of telephones. Ask me to talk on one, I most often will have a violent, body-shaking, tachycardia-inducing, shortness-of-breath causing, sob-filled panic attack. I don't. Do. Phones. Being forced to do things like make doctor's appointments on phones? Ridiculous. I show up in person, the office is down the street, they tell me to call. Yesterday the accupuncturist asked to talk to me directly, when my boyfriend had called to make the appointment for me -- at least he was willing to understand "she's happy to talk to you in person but she has a severe phobia".

I have a cell phone; I have unlimited texting and my phone also gets email. I tell people to email me or text me if they need to get ahold of me, and if they absolutely need to call they need to call my boyfriend. If my cell phone rings, I pass it to someone else and ask them to take a message, unless it's my parents or I've planned a phone conversation in advance (that, and only that, is okay). Text is good. Talking in person is good. Phone is bad.

I can understand better people giving me shit, because severe anxiety disorders are things that lots of the world don't believe in, but the idea that hearing impaired people have to go through the phone-related shit I do and are not accomodated makes my blood boil. Seriously. WTF.

Edited for reading more closely (I should not try to read, let alone backread and comment, when tired): I am also autistic, and not sure if these things are related, but my problems are never with actual hearing -- I am less surprised, but just as disappointed, with people giving those on the spectrum crap. I'm 100% used to it. But it's still extreme levels of crap.

Edited 2009-10-14 18:51 (UTC)

Thank you, thank you.

I have to grit my teeth every time I use the cheap-ass phone at work, or whenever I have to call up the bank or the registrar to resolve any issues. I can use my cell, since I get better clarity with my cochlear implant, but it is *frustrating* to follow the conversation in minute detail.

It would be so much simpler to use a secured website for these things.

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The telephone thing

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