You Fail At Accessibility

[synecdochic]

Have you ever been in an 'accessible' hotel room that had an half-inch-high curb at the threshhold? Ever been caught in a 22" wide wheelchair facing down a 20" door? Ever been assured that the allegedly-accessible route has 'just' one step?

Take a picture. Then post it to the community, with where you were, what you noticed, and why that place fails at accessibility. (Filing ADA violation reports can be a community bonding activity!)

Pictures aren't necessary, and whether or not you have a picture, describe the situation as completely as you can. (That way those with visual-based disabilities can share in the mocking of the fail as well.) And if you come across someplace that does it right, please also feel free to post accessibility wins.

(All kinds of accessibility fail welcome: mobility-based, visual-based, physical-world, online-world, anything at all.)

Comments

[aedifica]

I'll make this a comment rather than a post because it's something I haven't witnessed myself, but there's always the classic sign: "Illiterate? Write today for free help!"

[norabombay]

Does size count? For the purpose of the community? I'm thinking of the things I run into where everyday stuff is not made to cope with the size and weight of me and a goodly percentage of the population.

Desk chairs at DePaul University, I'm looking at you- it was a serious fat fail.

[synecdochic]

Sure! Things that are inaccessible for people of size are almost certainly inaccessible for other reasons, too.

[norabombay]

Awesome. I mean, not awesome that things are inaccessible. But awesome it is included.

Fat Fail is usually a fail on some other level- if it's not wide enough for me? It's certainly not wide enough for a wheelchair.

[synecdochic]

Exactly! And while I don't really want to class "fat" as a disability, per se, and the frustration that caused this comm to be born was one too many instances of the ADA getting flagrantly violated under my nose, something doesn't necessarily have to be ADA-noncompliant to be an accessibility fail. If that makes any sense.

[beatrice_otter]

I have no accessability issues myself, and am generally fairly oblivious to my physical surroundings (as in, regularly walking into doors and corners) so there's lots of stuff I just don't notice, but some are so blatant even I notice them. Such as the ABC Brewery Pub in Gettysburg, PA on Rt. 30 adjacent to Seminary Ridge, in which the "handicap accessible" bathrooms are located in the basement. In a restaurant which has no elevator.

[marcelle42]

Can ask a question about this wrt bathrooms? ("No, I am not your personal tour guide today," is a perfectly acceptable answer.)

I am fat, and I find "standard" public restroom stalls very uncomfortable, sometimes inaccessible -- they're not wide enough for my knees, there's not enough space between the door and the toilet for me pull up my pants, and somehow, something's always going to end up wet. However, I was taught that the accessible stalls should be used only 1) if one is disabled, or 2) if everything else is full and there are no visibly-disabled people in line. That it is rude for (temporarily) able-bodied people to use accessible bathroom stalls just because they're roomy. I generally consider myself able-bodied, but I really find the standard stalls un-doable at times. What to do in this situation?

My gut reaction is that *all* stalls should be built to be more accommodating to a wider range of people, as well as insuring that there are stalls that accommodate wheelchairs and other assistive devices. But that's sort of a larger, systemic solution.

[norabombay]

well, yes- fat is very much not a disability. I don't see it interfering with my daily life, or the gym, or work or whatever. But it does create the random issue with access.

And 90% of the time, that access issue applies to other people as well.

It is annoying that the stripper pole for Flirty Girl Fitness only holds 180lbs. But that isn't an access issue, that's just- well, actually Flirty Girl Fitness is an entire problem all it's own, but not for reasons of access.

That the bathrooms in public places are too small for me? Than they are going to be impossible for anyone who is using a wheel chair or some other form of mobility assistance.

I think this is an argument for me to continue to take my digital camera everywhere I go...

[druidspell]

I've got one.
University of Kentucky, Slone Building.
Has:
-no automatic doors or door-opening buttons at the entrance or exit so that if, for instance, you are like my friend H. and are wheelchair-bound with cerebral palsy, you cannot open the door to enter or exit the building without someone else's assistance.
-an elevator accessible only at the back of the building, which must be reached either a) by walking around the exterior to the rear of the building, climbing a small flight of stairs, and opening a non-automatic door, or b) using the front non-automatic door and proceeding the 50 yards to the rear of the building (through another set of non-automatic doors) to reach the service elevator.
-all of the classrooms located on the second and third floors, accessible either by stairs or inconvenient elevator

I first noticed this in November of 2007, when I had broken my leg and was crutching around campus. I discovered through painful experience that managing crutches, a full backpack, the doors, stairs, elevator, AND not putting any weight on the broken leg was a task best suited to someone with more resources than I had; e.g. someone with four arms instead of the standard two, or possibly telekinesis.

[starwatcher]

.
1. Something I've noticed so many times - the automatic door-closers on public bathrooms that are so tight that it takes a strong effort from me to enter and exit. It must be hell for people in a wheelchair, or using a walker or crutches -- or just kind of old and weak, dammit!

2. This happened years ago. Upgraded bathrooms at the local county fairgrounds, nicely handicapped-accessible - with a honkin' big trashcan placed to block wheelchair access to the entry. (Walking in was no problem.) I went to the fair office to point it out; they sort of blanched and one woman immediately got up to rectify the situation. But... why did they have to be told?
.

[norabombay]

Speaking only for myself, as a fat woman? If there is not someone waiting- either to use the accessable stall or at all?

I'll use the big one. I don't absolutely have to. But I find it very nice to be able to actually pull my pants up and down without banging an elbow. A super quick pee will result in someone who needs the stall being forced to wait all of 30 seconds.

I'm not monopolizing the facility. I'm not preventing anyone who needs it more from using it. But if no one is waiting, I feel I have the right to pee in relative comfort.

And yes, they ALL should be built bigger and easier to use- I blew out my quads at the gym on Wednesday, and spend most of the work week profoundly thankful for the bars in the stall at work, letting me get from sitting to standing without dying.

[synecdochic]

That's one of those subjects that everyone has a different answer for, but as far as I'm concerned, if you need the extra space for physical reasons (size, handicap, etc), you're perfectly entitled to it. The only time I get snarly is when the architect put the baby-changing table in the accessible stall, and even then I try to snarl at the designer, not at the parent. (This does not always happen, because sometimes parents take 20 minutes in the damn accessible stall while I sit waiting and needing to pee, and it is hard to remember to be gracious in a case like that.)

But seriously, needing to use the accessible stalls for issues of size is one of those things that if you ask five people about, you get seven opinions. As far as I'm concerned, it's a perfectly legit usage, though.

[synecdochic]

That sounds perfect for a top-level entry, whether or not you've got photo evidence!

[xenakis]

As an architectural intern, I have to deal with issues of accessibility and universal design all the time. That means to be concerned not only with the minimum dimensions required by the building code (yeah, how'd you guys like them 1:12 ramps? pff!) but to think about the wider issues of common entrances/ease of location/legibility of signage etc. It's pretty hard and frustrating sometimes, but I try to see the ADA regulations as opportunities for innovative design. One pretty wicked example of this is the stair/ramp designed by Arthur Erikson in Robson Square, Vancouver: http://www.greatbuildings.com/cgi-bin/gbi.cgi/Robson_Square.html/cid_1820069.html

And yeah, I know this isn't an example of fail... I'll tell you all about the Montreal Metro system another time, to make up for it ;)

[synecdochic]

You totally need to post that image as a top-level entry as an accessibility win! That's beautiful and functional.

[trouble]

It's amazing to me how often I tell people I'm looking for an accessible vegetarian restaurant, and when I point out their suggestion has steps, they say "But just one!"

That's all it takes.

[xenakis]

I'd love to, but I can't seem to! The little "post to community" icon on the profile page doesn't seem to work for me. muh?

[alexseanchai]

The honors dorm at IUP. Getting in the front door involved going up a couple dozen stairs. Back door was level with the ground outside the building but getting from the door to either the basement or the first floor required stairs. Side door #1 was level with both the ground and the first floor, but students didn't get to use it unless the fire alarm was going off. Same deal with side door #2 except I think that one actually had a ramp. I'm not even sure either of those opened from outside.

[sarah]

*slaps forehead*

Incidentally, I'm a total walk-into-walls klutz myself -- except when I'm out with D. It's like I pay way more attention to my surroundings when it's on her behalf.

Not that dating someone disabled is an ideal cure for clumsiness, but if you happen to be doing so anyway, you'll end up with fewer mysteriously bruised limbs.

[sarah]

I love how this is more accessible for everyone, unlike the usual tacked-on ramp. Such an incredibly elegant design.

[2naonh3_cl2]

Firstly: *applauds* I am not handicapped, but I work with the disabled, and seriously, "handicapped accessible" is sometimes such a load of crap. I weigh about 110, and trying to get a wheelchair bound person up the "tiny, little, bump" sometimes requires more than me.

Secondly: NYC subway stations. Handicapped accessible? It's a fifty-fifty toss up. They will tell you on the MTA website if that particular station is accessible, but certain parts of the lines do fail. As well as maneuvering yourself, once you get into the station, WTF.

http://www.mta.info/mta/ada/stations.htm#manhattan

[synecdochic]

Sigh -- that's a bug that'll be fixed with tonight's code push. In the meantime, I've fixed your posting access.

[xenakis]

Thanks! I've just posted it!

As an aside, can I just say THANK YOU TIMES A MILLION FOR DREAMWIDTH!!! You guys ended my ten years old lurking habit with you talk of fandom and community and I love it, I love it!

[xenakis]

Isn't it? I loooove that project.

BritRail

[adina]

Accessibility fail? British railways. The train platforms are not standard to the train heights, so there's often a height difference up to 5 inches. I mentioned this to my brother, a naturalized British citizen, as an example of how Britain is at least twenty years behind the U.S. in handicapped accessibility (and the U.S. isn't great, as this community proves) and he said that it wasn't an issue because they will bring a ramp if requested. So I checked--yes, they will bring a ramp if requested 48 hours in advance. Yeah, that solves that issue. Not.

[killing_rose]

I recall on my first day of freshman year checking my dorm at the time for accessibility. (I'm able-bodied, but it's something I try to remember given that I have friends who use wheelchairs that I'd like to be able to visit me.) At the time, given that the building had an elevator, I thought that at least the college was trying. Yes, it had one elevator and one accessible bathroom. That was in the basement. But the elevator only went to the third floor and not the fourth and was very rarely able to be accessed unless you got the key from the custodian *and* security *and* campus life.

Other dorms on our campus? Out of twenty-five dorms, ranging from freshman housing to the co-ops favored by seniors? Six of them have an elevator of some form (which is the only thing that anyone on campus actually pays attention to when it comes to "accessibility"), about eight have one or more bathrooms that a larger stall with grab bars, and all of seven or so have a larger shower. And maybe five have either a ramp or an entrance that has no steps whatsoever.

Do not get me started on the classroom buildings because in many instances they fail even worse. (Our library was built in the sixties. It has an elevator. Located in the basement and not available to the public unless you go to the checkout desk, which is located up one flight of stairs.)

Feminist *and* accessibility fail

[vass]

The 24-hour computer lab at the University of Melbourne has two toilets. One is for able-bodied men. The other is for everyone else.

[niqaeli]

Yeah, there's no guarantee that the 'accessible' station at the other end has its elevator in working repair; you can quite easily get stranded underground.

(My sister-in-law spent some four months in a wheelchair in New York. She apparently didn't go out much. Or, you know. Ever.)

Tagging admin

[cesy]

Can tags be added for workplace and win, please? It would be good to label the entry about the good example, so that such things can be found easily.

Also, is it worth tagging my entry as UK? Most of the stuff is similar (DDA is fairly similar to ADA, from what I know), but some details may differ between countries. Is this community meant to be US-centric, or just accessibility worldwide?

Re: Feminist *and* accessibility fail

[cesy]

Oh wow. That's pretty awful.

Re: BritRail

[cesy]

I would hate to have to navigate London in a wheelchair. Only a few of the Tube stations are accessible (in terms of having the accessible symbol on the map to say they've made an attempt - I don't know what proportion of those are actually accessible), and buses aren't exactly going to be much better.

Do you really have to book the ramps 48 hours in advance? That's terrible. I'd assumed you could just roll up and ask one of the staff.

I did hear a horror story from one girl who was stuck on the train and missed her stop because the staff at the station she should have been getting off at forgot to bring the ramp. On a long-distance train with stops half an hour apart, and hourly trains going back the other way, that's no joke.

Re: BritRail

[adina]

Ah, sorry, it's 24 hours notice (is that an improvement?) and they say they'll try to help if you don't give them notice but can't guarantee it.

Re: BritRail

[cesy]

I guess 24 hours is an improvement, though it's still not ideal.

Though it does now occur to me that for stations which are normally unstaffed, them not guaranteeing it without 24 hours' notice does seem reasonable. But for staffed stations, I think they should guarantee it. I also think if every train has a conductor on (which I think is true for some operators but not all), they should be able to guarantee it.

Re: Feminist *and* accessibility fail

[xenakis]

Actually, that pretty standard. If there is only enough space for one barrier-free (accessible) bathroom, it'll usually be the women's one. That bathroom will also have a changing table, and yeah, fathers should also be in charge of changing diapers, but in reality...

The thing is, architects usually push to have two unisex bathrooms instead, but most clients like that option even less.

Re: Feminist *and* accessibility fail

[cesy]

Do the clients give a reason for not liking two unisex bathrooms? It seems like a logical solution to me.

Re: Feminist *and* accessibility fail

[xenakis]

*sigh* Seriously, it's like the adult equivalent of "ew! boys/girls have cooties!" And if they don't have that reaction, they assume that their users will... It's ridiculous.

[pthalo]

Here in Hungary, the entire subway system in Budapest has three elevators. That is, there are probably about 100 metro stations, and three of those stations have elevators. A tourist in a wheelchair could quite easily see an elevator, use it to enter the metro station, and then find himself stuck at his destination, faced with a really, really long narrow escalator or a really, really long flight of stairs.

[roaringmice]

I think my favorite "in-access" thing is at my work, and I like it because it's kind of subtle. Unless you actually use that bathroom, rather than look at it, you might not notice the problem.

The placement of the hand rail on the wall - which is correct - means they put the toilet paper holder on the wall below the bar. Which might be fine if the holder weren't so huge, and didn't open at the bottom.

In order to get a piece of toilet paper, a person sitting on the toilet must bend and stretch all the way forward and reach to the floor to get it. I am a former gymnast, and thus bendy, and even I have trouble reaching a sheet of toilet paper. For someone who can not do that bending, I have no idea how they're supposed to get at the paper.

So, you can use the bathroom just fine, but wiping yourself? You're out of luck.

[anotherdream]

How do you feel about people with size problems in this comm? I'm not disabled, but I am quite short, only four feet eleven inches. You know, shorter than a middle schooler. Many things that wheelchair-bound people have problems with, so do I - I can't reach things, furniture and kitchens and bathrooms are difficult, my most important piece of furniture is a small stepladder (without which I cannot even reach most of my cupboards).