fail at a Marriott hotel

[sarah]

I am not disabled. My girlfriend synecdochic is, thanks to a genetic disorder of the connective tissue. When not at home, she uses either a cane or a wheelchair.

Before her disease progressed to the point where she required an assistive device to walk more than twenty feet, I gave physical accessibility as much consideration as the average non-disabled person: when I thought of it at all, it was to note the presence of a ramp or parking space or the like. I never realized the sheer number of small (and not-so-small) obstacles a physically-disabled person must navigate to traverse the same distance I can walk across without a second thought.

synecdochic jokes that I'm more apt to rant about a non-accessible space than she; I say that's because I have the energy to spare, since I'm not the one who has to hoist myself over a crappy curb-cut or make a fifty-yard detour to find an entrance without steps.

We're spending the next couple evenings at a Marriott in northern Virginia while I attend a work-related conference. My annoyance at our less-than-ideally-accessible room spurred the creation of this community.



This is the doorway of our handicapped-accessible room. Hardly noticeable to someone not in a wheelchair, jumping a threshold this high takes surprising momentum with the standard-sized casters equipped on this wheelchair. (The casters are the two small wheels in front.) Not only is momentum difficult to build up when you're on carpet, it can't be done when you're maneuvering through a doorway alone, as you need one hand to hold open the dor and the other on the doorframe; you have to haul yourself through from a standstill.</td>



Some effort has clearly been made to make this sink accessible. Note the lack of a vanity, allowing the wheelchair-user to get close to the sink.



But removing the vanity's only the first step: the sink was installed at the standard height for the non-wheelchair user. Note how high I have to lift my arms to reach the bowl. The mirror's also mounted too high. I can't see anything below my nose while sitting straight-backed in the chair.



A standard toilet bowl sits 14"-15" off the floor. An accessible toilet bowl should be 17"-19" high. It's amazing how much of a difference those couple inches make. Lacking a ruler, you can judge the height of this toilet by the height of D's wheelchair: her seat is 15" high. Not only are higher-than-standard seats essential for the disabled, they're more comfortable for seniors, heavily-pregnant women, or anyone who experiences hip and knee pain. I really don't know why this higher height hasn't become the standard.



While the main doors in the lobby are accessible, the doors to the sole designated outdoor smoking area are not. Each door is less than 24" wide. D's chair is about 21" wide at the base; she could not get through without having two doors held open (remember that a certain amount of clearance is required for your hands to push your wheel rims). Even worse, the doors were poorly hung, making them extremely heavy. Again, this isn't just a problem for a person in a wheelchair. It's difficult for anyone using a cane, for anyone with decreased upper-body strength, or for a senior citizen.

Comments

[adina]

I really don't know why this higher height [in toilets] hasn't become the standard.

Um, mostly because they increase straining and hemorrhoids in non-disabled users. I've also been told that with some styles of wheelchairs, the lower seat height is easier than the higher, especially if the wheelchair user can move from side to side but cannot lift up. My neighbor's wheelchair has much smaller rear wheels than D's chair appears to have, so she parks beside the toilet and slides over to a toilet of the same height at home.

[sarah]

Aha! Thanks; that makes sense.

I'll have to poke around as I'm curious to know what difference there is from region to region, or if the average height has changed over the years.

[adina]

I did rather a lot of research on accessibility for bathrooms when remodeling. Do you know that there is--or was at the time, a couple of years ago--no published standard to tell you where or how high to put the bloody grab bars? I was remodeling for myself and another temporarily able-bodied person, so the advice to "just put them where you need them" was less than useful. I think it explains why the grab bars in so many public restrooms are so oddly and uselessly placed. (The fact that non-fug-ugly grab bars are hideously expensive is another matter entirely.)

[sara]

The other reason, at least from my POV, being that it is very hard for children to use higher toilets.

Which is yet another reason why it's completely infuriating that they put changing tables in the handicapped stall -- I go in there to change the baby and meanwhile my daughter has a terrifying experience trying to use the toilet. Very stupid.

[phoenixsong]

When I was in middle school and had a full-leg cast (and wheelchair) for nearly two months, the regular-height toilets were easier for me than the supposedly "accessable" stall. My toes might have temporarily turned blue (I'm tiny and the cast was plaster), but it was easier to sit down than to try to haul myself and the cast up a few inches.

Since I'm still only 5 feet and half an inch tall, what I would honestly like is to have a choice. I can grok that a taller toilet would be better for some, but even once I fit into that "heavily pregnant" bracket, I think I'd still rather not have to pee with my feet dangling off the ground, know-what-I-mean?

[kate_nepveu]

My 5'3" self dislikes our higher toilet even when I was heavily pregnant (my husband is 6'6" and I didn't realize that I would dislike it when we bought it). I want a toilet that will recognize me when I walk in the room and reconfigure itself accordingly.

To return to the topic of the post: oh, doors. The result of said pregnancy is now being pushed around in a stroller, which I realize is not at all equivalent to being in a wheelchair [*], but nevertheless gives me a bit more perspective, and heavy narrow doors are very unhappy-making.

[*] For instance: unless sleeping, SteelyKid _likes_ bumping over curbs (gently).

[kyrielle]

I'll add re height that I really dislike bathrooms with only the taller toilets (and did even more when pregnant) - I'm short, the things mean my feet are off the ground and seat-edge digging into my thighs. Having your legs fall asleep while on the commode, not so pleasant.

[willow]

Oh Marriott, how well I know the fail.

My family tends to get a full suite (Marriott, Residence Inn) with a kitchen when they're in the area. So they can cook etc, and not spend more money on food and also because they tend to visit around birthdays and a kitchen is essential for throwing a family party.

The kitchen sink in several of these suites, has a free area that a wheel chair might fit, but the exposed area under the counter was actually not deep enough for a chair, meaning someone would have to stretch a lot to use the tap. This was discovered when my mother, not feeling well, attempted to keep doing stuff in the kitchen by sitting in a chair instead of standing. Yes, a dining chair isn't like a wheelchair, but lack of space for one's legs is the same everywhere.

Another thing we discovered was that the stove top burners were too far back for easy reach if someone were in a chair. There was extreme danger of spilling hot food material. Or having to stretch across an open burner or hot pot of food, to reach more space. The whole stove thing was a nightmare that I cussed about nonstop. Because it didn't just affect some unknown, unnamed wheelchair user, but my ill mother, and myself (being in too much pain to stretch to move a pot from a burner back next to the backsplash). I could not figure out, if the burners are put in on their own, since it wasn't a stove unit (the oven being a wall oven to the side) why there couldn't be four burners in a row, instead of two in front and two behind (and the two infront being the SMALLER burners).

The rise in elevation from hallway to room actually tripped everyone (that's 6 people) at one point or other, usually when one of us was carrying something and couldn't see the step to remember it was there.

My other personal gripe with Marriott was that their toilets didn't seem to be made with real people in mind; People who ate food and thus had to expel waste. Every one we've ever been to, by the time three people have used a toilet - in that thirty minutes after reaching 'home' after an outing, the things clogged up. I don't know if it's a water flow problem or a design problem or what. But three children using the toilet and it'd break. It's always made me think of the extra frustration someone with any kind of bowel difficulties would have.

Marriott always makes me think that someone tells their builders to do some visual lip service to accessibility, but no one does any kind of practical evaluation.

Best example? Two people in wheelchairs going in opposite directions, could not navigate some of their hallways - heck, the service carts the maids use? Two of them can't go down side by side either, someone has to pull into the side as tight as possible and stay behind the cart, while the other puts their arms on top of the cart to avoid squishing and push past.

ETA: Occurs to me that it would be helpful to mention that the signage on the door to the suite had the blue wheelchair which is why these things came particularly to mind. I can't remember, however, if I was using a cane at that point which might be why that was our suite or if it was just chance of what was available in the size we needed.

[jeshyr]

I was in my powerchair today and thought of the photo of you with the basin there saying about height problems. I measured afterwards, the seat of my pchair is 24" (60cm) off the ground, so it's roughly 10" taller than D's manual chair.

I'm thinking, looking at your photo, there's not nearly 10" of clearance at the top of your thighs under the sink.

Obviously it needs to be lower for a manual sports chair user to access it properly, but it would probably need to be *higher* for a power chair user - I seem to recall we figured that Ysobel's pchair seat was 2-3" higher than mine. I think mine's a touch above pchair average because I need tilt in space. In general, the more fancy equipment you need (tilt in space, recline, etc.) the higher the seat gets because of cramming it in underneath.

This is NOT a criticism of your criticism by the way. It's a general flail ... should variable height basins be required? In a world people can't even get door widths to a usable level is it even worth bringing this variation of needed heights up as an issue?

FWIW, I live in a government-owned house adapted to Australian standards for wheelchair accessible homes and with my pchair I can't fit my legs under the specially adapted kitchen or bathroom benches here either. But the benches drive my carers nuts because they're not standard bench height.

We can't make the whole world height adjustable, so what's reasonable to ask for? What's reasonable to expect? How do we make rules when one size doesn't fit all?

Musing out loud,
r

[roserodent]

FWIW I don't like high toilets because I need my feet on the ground to stop me from falling off due to poor balance. So long as they are not comically low I can transfer on and off, but need to bring my chair around so i can rest on the footplate if it's too high, which is a risk with a powerchair in case I send it too far away and cannot make it come back! LOL

I nominate Nantes SNCF station, France for worst disabled toilet, though. It cost money to open the door, the (then) 2F piece. I had to go miles to get change to open the door, and when I did open the door, already having wet myself due to the faff to get in, I cried when I found it was a traditional Eurob-bog. Yes, inside the *Disabled* toilet was one of the old-fashioned 2 footplates and a hole in the ground squat toilet. I'd love to be able to use one of them in some kind of stabilising hoist when the opiates are taking their toll on *ahem* movements, but as an accessible toilet it rather takes the... um... proverbial. ;)

EDS

[dorianj]

Hello! I love your artical about accessablity! I hope more get posted. I have had my fair share of moments like these. I've also led a battle to get handicap accessable doors at CSU-Pueblo campus and I've had sucessful results. We got several more handicap doors after I went to the President and explained the problem. He actually listened to me and put the handicap doors into the budget they submited when they got millions of dollars invested(donate? I cant think of the aproprate name for this at the moment)and they not only wrote it in there to placate me, they really did it. he even had me write out a map showing the doors that were the worst handicap accessable areas and he took a tour with the building managers to see the doors personally. The new president is awesome to say the least. I'm proud that I helped get more doors so other disabled students won't have to battle the doors I had to battle.

anywho that wasnt the reason I replyed really. the real reason is I got all excited when I saw the "connective tissue" sentence and knew exactly what was up before I had to click the link. I too have EDS! Man is it a pain in the ass(literally haha)I don't know very many people with EDS. most of them online. So I get excited when I meet people with EDS. I''m not excited that she has EDS becuause having eds sucks so id be way happyer(is that even a word, im bipolar manic writing at the moment)if she didnt have it. but since we cant change that,im happy to have run cross you guys. Thanks again for the awesome artical :) I know where not to stay in that area. hahaha
-Mr.J

Re: EDS

[dorianj]

ps, her chair is freaking awesome!