*facepalm*

[sarah]

I'm here in Silver Spring, Maryland with reginagiraffe and synecdochic, having dinner at a Chipotle. Syne popped into the ladies, only to find the handicapped stall occupied by a very thin woman, crouching over the toilet, vomiting with the stall door open.

Syne asked if she was okay -- if she needed help of any sort. "I'm fine," the woman said.

Well, that's debatable. And you shouldn't be occupying that stall, among other things.

Comments

[wordsatourbacks]

Yikes!

Well, that's debatable. And you shouldn't be occupying that stall, among other things.

Seriously.

[trialia]

Ugh.

Also, I miss Silver Spring! *eyes pitiful bank balance*

[keeva]

... are you sure you want to start policing who uses those toilets?

i'm just sayin'.

[pne]

This.

[archersangel]

+1

[sami]

... I would argue that she clearly has a definite disability going. Mental illness - which bulimia/anorexia (in all likelihood) is - is an invisible, but real, disability itself.

And "normal" stalls are cramped and uncomfortable and often a lot less clean. Seriously, you recognise that she's clearly not fine, but that's as far as your capacity for empathy goes? "Well, sure, she has serious mental health problems that could very well kill her, but she's using the handicapped stall, and therefore she just flat out sucks as a human being."

Tell her you need to use the stall, give her a minute to clean up, and perhaps try to recognise that invisible disabilities are still disabilities and can be utterly crippling.

[wordsatourbacks]

I would argue that she clearly has a definite disability going. Mental illness - which bulimia/anorexia (in all likelihood) is - is an invisible, but real, disability itself.

And "normal" stalls are cramped and uncomfortable and often a lot less clean.

These things are true and valid points.

invisible disabilities are still disabilities and can be utterly crippling

And that is absolutely true.

[maevele]

What evidence is there she even has bulimia and wasn't just puking for some other reason, as one does? and if I am making a dead run to the toilet to puke, i might wind up in that stall just because at a lot of places it's the straightest line.

[keeva]

or possibly even the accessible stall was the only not occupied at the time she ran in.

[jackandahat]

Or if she has other issues, it might have been necessary - me and my arthritic knees are not getting back up off the floor if there isn't a grab bar. Disabled toilets = only place I've ever seen a grab bad, so there we are.

[sami]

To me, very thin + puking at restaurant suggests a likelihood of A Problem, since if someone has a tummy bug or the like, they're generally going to skip going to restaurants, as a rule.

Of course, as a rule, I tend to prefer to consider the possibilities that someone has a genuine problem - which, if they're at the point of the technicolour yawn in a public place, it's pretty much guaranteed they have *some* sort of problem, even if it's just gastro - and take that into account, before deciding to judge people on the basis of disabled stall usage.

[maevele]

Unless it caught them by surprise, or it's first trimester all day sickness, or they swallowed a bug, or have some other Problem that meant they didn't get to leisurely decide which stall to yak in.

I puked in a lot of restaurant bathrooms while pregnant, even back when I was very thin, and I tell you, I hit whatever stall I could get to.

Also, if it were bulimia, I doubt she'd have left the door wide open. Generally if I have a spare second before hurling, I'll try for privacy, so I would think if I were puking on purpose I'd take the time to shut the door.

[sami]

It depends... sometimes, bulimics will be a little bit deliberately obvious about it, in the desperate hope that someone will notice, and intervene.

Sometimes it's the only way to cry for help.

Regardless, though, it's pretty much guaranteed that if she's hugging the porcelain, *something* is wrong, because nobody yarfs their lunch for the sheer fun of it - and if they do, that's a problem in itself - and for the various reasons already mentioned, you take your least horrible option for stall.

[amadi]

But that doesn't mean that she wants or needs assistance from a stranger. Maybe she didn't have the opportunity to lock the door before losing her lunch, the lunch she thought she could stomach (she might've had something like just plain rice or chips) and just wanted to finish puking and go on home or back to her office without a lot of fuss. No one knows the circumstances which put that particular woman in that fast food restroom at that time.

It is especially troubling, body policing, sizist and ableist to even entertain the assumption that because someone is very thin and vomiting, that it's evidence of an eating disorder. Statistically speaking, more than 99% of people who vomit on any given day do not have bulimia.

[sami]

... Wow, derailing much?

No, she probably wouldn't want help from a stranger. Maybe she was there with a friend, maybe all sorts of things. My point is rather that I find it preferable to take into consideration all the possibilities of what could be the problem and consider the worst-case scenario before passing judgement on people. sarah is, in the post from which this thread derives, apparently assuming that the "very thin" woman puking in the bathroom has no right to be using the disabled stall.

Congratulations on finding a high horse to jump on, though, well done. In keeping in mind that other people may well have serious problems and therefore shouldn't be judged for not having a visible, approved disability, and pointing out what kind of problems they could very well be, I am clearly being viciously cruel to this woman I have never met or laid eyes upon.

[amadi]

Bringing up bulimia was ableist, and the first derailing. The word should never have been brought into the discussion.

[lady_ganesh]

Yeah. A floor covered in puke is not friendly to accessibility either.

[sophie]

I have to agree with this.

That, and there's not a lot of evidence that they don't have any other invisible disability as well.

[jackandahat]

*points* This. I really wanted to reply to this post last night, but I figured I'd be accused of derailing or something. Good to see I'm not the only one.

I've never been bullimic in my life. I did spend every day of a month throwing up after lunch at school until I realised just what I was eating that I shouldn't be. (Bread. I figured "Come on, no-one's allergic to bread!" and tried everything except that, changed filling every day, no butter, no dessert, anything. Turned out to be the sandwich itself.)

And of course, people took one look at the skinny kid throwing up... and I was being accused every day of being bullimic.

And frankly, when I was throwing up the last thing I'd want is someone who didn't know me (And was judging me) "helping".

Also - handicap stalls are the only places I've seen with grab bars. How else am I meant to get me and my arthritis up off the floor after without one?

off-topic :P

[freyakitten]

And of course, people took one look at the skinny kid throwing up... and I was being accused every day of being bullimic.

Heh, people took one look at the skinny kid eating more than the large-portion adults and had concerned talks with my parents about my supposed bulimia... I started eating less when I figured out the combination to be able to digest it all *headdesk*

Re: off-topic :P

[jackandahat]

I have been anorexic, but people had no clue then. When I *was* eating, I was accused of having something wrong with me because I ate a hell of a lot and was slim. It was a combination of more calories out than in (a lot of work/exercise) and a naturally fast metabolism. Nothing sinister going on. But people love to judge based on looks - and I find the people who are first to cry bias over how fat people are treated are often the first ones to go "God, why doesn't the skinny bitch just eat a burger?"

Re: off-topic :P

[keeva]

in my experience, people who are concerned about body shape discrimination are as upset about judgment of thin people as well of fat people.

Re: off-topic :P

[jackandahat]

Difference in experience there.

Re: off-topic :P

[freyakitten]

I'm of the opinion that people concerned about body shape discrimination are bothered by the treatment of all body shapes - but those worried about larger body shape discrimination are not worried about smaller body shape discrimination.

Like all the people who go "being overweight is a risk factor for x! and y! and z!" and don't believe you when you tell them all the things that being underweight is a risk factor for (osteoporosis and heart problems and a whole bunch of stuff that I can't remember right now but which you can link back to insufficient nutrition if you really want to).

I spend more time than I am societally comfortable with (I'm comfortable doing it, but I am uncomfortable that the biases of society make it so I have to) reassuring women at dancing that they're gorgeous, and they don't have to try to get down to my weight because I'm trying to gain weight for my health.

[adrian_turtle]

Syne asked if she was okay -- if she needed help of any sort. "I'm fine," the woman said.

"Are you ok" is a question that usually doesn't have anything to do with disability. Most people (with or without disabilities) tend to hear it as "Do you need help right now?" She's fine. She can vomit without assistance, thanks. I have OFTEN said "I'm fine," when I really meant, "You can't help. Leave me alone."

I disagree with Sami that vomiting implies anorexia or bulimia. The open door suggests the woman hurried into the bathroom with a sudden need to throw up. I've experienced that from migraine, motion sickness, side effects from medication, unusual food sensitivities, and ear infections. I've never personally been pregnant or drunk, though I understand they have been known to cause vomiting. As somebody said above, knee problems can make it really hard to get up after puking in a standard bathroom stall without grab bars.

I understand going into the bathroom and being annoyed to discover that the accessible stall is not available. But in a situation like this, I think it's problematic to say something more policing than, "Are you almost done? I need to use that stall."

[wordsatourbacks]

Thank you for making this comment.

[firecat]

I get being upset that the only toilet you can use is occupied.

That said, I think the accessibility fail here isn't that a thin woman is puking in the handicapped stall, it's that there's only one large/handicapped stall.

The one time I puked in a public toilet (in a cafeteria, because of food poisoning that came on very suddenly), I used the handicapped stall. I was so weak from puking that afterward I had to lie on the floor, and in the handicapped stall I could lie down without putting my head right up against the toilet.

I would have been mortified if I'd kept a person from using that toilet if that was the only toilet they could use. But lying on the floor in one of the smaller stalls, staring up at the toilet bowl, would have made my nausea worse. And lying on the floor in the public part of the restroom would have felt pretty unsafe. As it was, I was fortunate in that no one came into the restroom while I was using it.

If someone has only a temporary disability, I think they still get to use the handicapped stall.